mikesilb...EII or a different type?

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Re: mikesilb...EII or a different type?

Postby mikesilb » Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:52 pm

BTW, I'm totally open to both sides here, and each deserves its own merit. I'm curious how this will unfold...
Mike

Socionics: Delta NF most likely
Enneagram: 6w7 soc/sx
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Re: mikesilb...EII or a different type?

Postby aestrivex » Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:41 pm

mikesilb wrote:
So let me get this straight. Your vote is still EIE (or as a backup, ESE) after both videos? Is that what my self presentation is pointing towards in your opinion?


type assessment is hardly a vote, but yes, i do lean towards thinking you are EIE, and otherwise ESE or IEI. this is not for me the most confident of assessments, but nor is it a very unconfident one.

aestrivex wrote:What would the proper methodology be in this case? How would you go about narrowing it down differently? I'm just curious about this so that we can move forward.


i opine that quadra values are far more important. in almost all cases that i actually see of people in this community, people who query whether they are one of two opposite-quadra types (ie, LSI or SLI, or SLE or SLI, or whatever) are usually beginners, and people who query whether they are one of two activity partners (ie, SLE or EIE) are usually on the right track. but not everyone agrees with my interpretations.

also, fwiw i find RSV3's typing unsurprising and find it likely that we will find no common ground in this typing.
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Re: mikesilb...EII or a different type?

Postby RSV3 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:11 pm

Interestingly enough, your normalized test result was ESE. The normalized test results are available to me only right now but I'm going to male them available hopefully by tonight. I will add a post defining what normalized means in this context.
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Re: mikesilb...EII or a different type?

Postby mikesilb » Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:32 pm

aestrivex wrote:
mikesilb wrote:
So let me get this straight. Your vote is still EIE (or as a backup, ESE) after both videos? Is that what my self presentation is pointing towards in your opinion?


type assessment is hardly a vote, but yes, i do lean towards thinking you are EIE, and otherwise ESE or IEI. this is not for me the most confident of assessments, but nor is it a very unconfident one.


I can live with this for now, and I honestly understand why you would see that positive energy in my type. I certainly can be an enthusiastic, passionate guy. So we don't necessarily disagree there. Frankly, I always thought that my passion (when I am on the extraverted side of life) came from Ne (which belies some deep feelings/sensitivities that are more under the surface, Fi). But reframing this as more of an Fe-based positive behavior needs to be a decent-sized possibility too. I know now that you like to look at things from a quadra-valued lens, but escaping that for one second and looking at my enthusiasm is not a terribly bad thing to do.

aestrivex wrote:
mikesilb wrote:What would the proper methodology be in this case? How would you go about narrowing it down differently? I'm just curious about this so that we can move forward.


i opine that quadra values are far more important. in almost all cases that i actually see of people in this community, people who query whether they are one of two opposite-quadra types (ie, LSI or SLI, or SLE or SLI, or whatever) are usually beginners, and people who query whether they are one of two activity partners (ie, SLE or EIE) are usually on the right track. but not everyone agrees with my interpretations.

also, fwiw i find RSV3's typing unsurprising and find it likely that we will find no common ground in this typing.


OK...it sounds like quadras are HUGE in the Socionics way of viewing typological interactions (and type determination). I thought (coming from the Jungian/MB world) that the Information Elements were higher, but I am starting to notice that quadras are just as huge. So from my perspective, we need to attack this question fully.

Am I a Beta or am I a Delta? This is the grand question here. Prior to you saying that I could be an EIE, I would have easily put this in the Delta camp. And then as a backup to Delta, I would have had Alpha above Beta (due to my goofy childlike tendencies, although I get that you see Beta there because of my interest in meaning, destiny, and the like).

Now, could I actually be a Beta? Possibly...I mean, I am an enthusiastic person who when captivated can be highly expressive. Perhaps to this end, I misinterpreted Beta to being more theatric who loves drama plays (which reminds me to some extent of the Enneagram Type 4 [which I am not, and rather am a 6]). But maybe I am expressive enough to fall within the Beta camp. Hard to tell.

I see Delta as being more down-to Earth, respectful of people's individuality, and willingly open and receptive to hearing the interests, values, and passions of those people within the group. All this I completely espouse and hence I would have easily given the nod towards Delta and away from Beta.

But am I wrong here? Have I misinterpreted the quadras here? I'm curious to find this out. Beta or Delta...what's your pick?
Mike

Socionics: Delta NF most likely
Enneagram: 6w7 soc/sx
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Re: mikesilb...EII or a different type?

Postby mikesilb » Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:36 pm

RSV3 wrote:Interestingly enough, your normalized test result was ESE. The normalized test results are available to me only right now but I'm going to male them available hopefully by tonight. I will add a post defining what normalized means in this context.



Hmmmm... That is intriguing, I guess. I have considerably more trouble viewing myself as an ESE (vs. either an EIE or an EII). I strongly feel that I belong in the NF Club, so I am curious what to make of this info. We will see... Thanks for pointing this out to me.
Mike

Socionics: Delta NF most likely
Enneagram: 6w7 soc/sx
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Re: mikesilb...EII or a different type?

Postby RSV3 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:15 pm

mikesilb wrote:
RSV3 wrote:Interestingly enough, your normalized test result was ESE. The normalized test results are available to me only right now but I'm going to male them available hopefully by tonight. I will add a post defining what normalized means in this context.



Hmmmm... That is intriguing, I guess. I have considerably more trouble viewing myself as an ESE (vs. either an EIE or an EII). I strongly feel that I belong in the NF Club, so I am curious what to make of this info. We will see... Thanks for pointing this out to me.


I don't think you are ESE. But the normalized data is helpful if you understand its purpose and limitations. I will post more fully on it later when I am back on a computer.
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Re: mikesilb...EII or a different type?

Postby mikesilb » Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:30 pm

OK cool! I look forward to seeing it, whenever you are ready. Also, I'd also like to see your feedback on why EII sounds right to you. Thanks!
Mike

Socionics: Delta NF most likely
Enneagram: 6w7 soc/sx
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Re: mikesilb...EII or a different type?

Postby RyeneAstraelis » Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:11 am

mikesilb wrote:OK...it sounds like quadras are HUGE in the Socionics way of viewing typological interactions (and type determination). I thought (coming from the Jungian/MB world) that the Information Elements were higher, but I am starting to notice that quadras are just as huge. So from my perspective, we need to attack this question fully.


The quadras are groups of four types that value the same IM elements, so that would make sense. ^_^

Alpha: Si, Ne, Ti, Fe
Delta: Si, Ne, Fi, Te
Gamma: Ni, Se, Fi, Te
Beta: Ni, Se, Ti, Fe
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Re: mikesilb...EII or a different type?

Postby mikesilb » Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:16 am

Hey guys,

I wanted to give you all a bit of an update here (regarding the EII vs EIE debate). I am starting to play with the possibility that EIE could actually be right. This is FAR from conclusive in any sense, but I am increasingly open to the concept that I am an extravert rather than introvert and that Fe is my dominant function.

I will say that if I am an EII, I have to be an Ne subtype to make this work. There is no way that I am an EII-Fi subtype given the reaction to the video that I made. An Ne subtype is the only way that we could account for the self-presentation in the video.

The other way is if IEE explained it as well. But I am not sure whether my positive nature is really coming from Ne or rather from Fe. I am starting to think that Fe (based on its definition) is what causes me to have the upbeat, friendly demeanor that I have. How would an IEE differ from an EIE in terms of the type of self-presentation that my video exhibited?

And finally, there is the EIE possibility itself. I used to view the Fe informational element in more of a superficial way, but the more that I think about the way that I interact with others, the more that I think that it is possible. It is quite easy to tell if I am happy, sad, angry, and all emotions in between. I am actually pretty easy to read in that sense. It is not as if I hold it in reserve that much. I would have thought that an EII-Ne would have been able to provide that increased flexibility in outward emotional responses, but maybe having me on the extraverted side of the line might make more sense. I'm not completely sure.

Now with all that being said, I have to revisit the Beta vs. Delta domain. Perhaps even though I espouse a lot of Fi and Delta values, perhaps I am more Beta at heart. Maybe I'm the type of guy who loves a more passionate environment and works well in that setup. I don't know. I have to explore that more. I inherently thought that I am more individualistic and perhaps more sensitive to the input of each individual rather than the group as a whole. However, if I am in a group where I really feel comfortable, I don't see why I wouldn't be really passionate (Fe-ish) in that environment. Maybe that puts me more in the Beta camp. Is that at all possible, even in light of relating so well to the values of Delta and Fi? What do you think?

So in a nutshell, I am absolutely considering EIE as a distinct possibility right now too. It goes against my original thinking that I am an introvert, but maybe when I am really in my element I am a core extravert. I am playing with this possibility, and am open to your feedback. (I am certainly not closing the EII door at all, but it definitely puts it into question/debate).
Mike

Socionics: Delta NF most likely
Enneagram: 6w7 soc/sx
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Re: mikesilb...EII or a different type?

Postby aestrivex » Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:30 am

mikesilb wrote:I will say that if I am an EII, I have to be an Ne subtype to make this work. There is no way that I am an EII-Fi subtype given the reaction to the video that I made. An Ne subtype is the only way that we could account for the self-presentation in the video.


i do not personally use accepting/producing subtypes or believe they make any sense, but at any rate if you are using subtypes to explain away other type-related mechanisms that don't make sense is very poor practice in my opinion since types are fundamental to the theory and subtypes are an added (and controversial) construct. nor is it widely accepted that subtypes for extroverted elements are more extroverted in practice.

to be sure, one can speak of "extroverted introverts" and a range of variability in this sense, but in my opinion such people are often still easy to identify as introverts compared to genuine extroverts. in my opinion, it makes perfect sense to think of you based on your videos as exactly the opposite -- an extrovert whose contemplative nature and relatively medium-sized social circle lead you to think of yourself as an introvert.
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